Tori Tuncan, founder of Lend4Health, joined the show recently. Lend4Health is a non-profit organization that facilitates community-funded, interest-free micro-loans as a creative funding option for individuals and groups seeking optimal health. Currently, Lend4Health is facilitating loans for the "biomedical" treatment of children and adults with autism spectrum and related disorders. Tori shared the story of her journey to date with Lend4Health, helping children and their families who experience autism spectrum and related disorders.
You can listen in streaming on-demand at this link.
Good morning, Tori. Tell us what you’re doing now with Lend4Health?
Lend4Health is modeled after a website called Kiva. Kiva plays into the micro-finance for the developing world picture. You can make small micro loans on the site. They usually do $25 micro loans. Kiva aggregates them and sends them to micro-finance institutions in the developing world. The loan goes out to the entrepreneurs who repay them over time. Once it’s repaid, you, as the lender, get your money back. At that point, you can lend it again.
I was a Kiva lender. It was the greatest thing ever. It’s so smart and simple. I use that model for healthcare in particular for autism. Lend4Health is really a platform or tool for people to lend each other a few bucks so they can get their kids the treatment they need.
When did you start Lend4Health?It was the end of June 2008.
Why? Why did you found Lend4Health?
It stems from a personal experience. In my case, I have 2 children. My son is 4 now. A couple years ago, I was starting to see some things that might be autism. I started pursuing this whole area. I took him to a couple of places. He did not fit that diagnosis. They said, “He doesn’t have autism, but he does have Sensory Processing Disorder or SPD.”
I went online to Google it. I learned that lots of kids with autism also have these sensory issues.
I found an online autism community of parents, researchers and doctors who are attempting to treat autism and these sensory issues. It’s a Yahoo Group called GFCF Kids.
I tried to learn as much as I could and started using some of the treatment protocols. He started getting better.
I kept hearing a lot of stories about the cost. A lot of this is not covered by insurance. There was a financial need. Parents were choosing between which tests or supplements they could afford first.
One night I was thinking I could use PayPal to send gifts to these people through their email address. Very quickly I realized I couldn’t afford to help them all.
Then I remembered Kiva. I thought our community and others could lend some money. The child gets what they need and the family pays it back over time interest free. You get your money back and lend it again. It came out of my own personal experience and seeing this need.
What happened next?
I didn’t do anything for two weeks. One night I sat down and started it. The only thing I knew how to do was create a blog. That’s what I did. I put a post on the Yahoo Group telling them I had a way for us to pay for it. I did get some inquiries. A woman named Karen made a $25 loan before we had any kids on the site. The reaction was positive. They said, “I’ll try anything. This is my kids we’re talking about.”
Erika Andersen, in her book Being Strategic, talks about defining your reasonable aspiration or hopeful goal when you started Lend4Health? What was yours?
It was very impulsive. I just thought we could help some kids. I did think it was possible it could grow even beyond the world of autism. That’s why I named it Lend4Health. I thought if it could work for this, why couldn’t it work for cancer or any health issue out there? My goal was to put it out there, have a tool people could use, help some families and possibly help many, many families all over the world.
Have you accomplished this goal?
I definitely know we have helped some kids. We’ve had 62 loans funded and dispersed. Those are 62 families that have been impacted by this. I know it’s working and kids are getting the help they need.
I’m seeing that this model works in terms of repayment. We have no defaults. We have a few delinquent monthly installments. Most loans are paid off on time and many are even paid early. A loan from Jeffrey in the UK was paid back six months early. It’s working.
When I started Lend4Health, I was going off the Kiva model. I realized this is very different. Typical micro financing for poverty alleviation, developing worlds and entrepreneurs, you’re making a loan to the entrepreneur to build or expand their business. From that, they hope for increased profit to pay back their loan. That’s a beautiful system.
The problem with Lend4Health is we don’t have that profit as obvious as in Kiva’s model. This is essentially a consumer loan. A family gets a loan for tests. What money are they paying it back with? That’s a very big difference. It’s not that the family doesn’t have money ever. They don’t have it right then. If they can pay it back over 12 months, they have it monthly in smaller chunks especially when it’s interest free.I see there is a profit happening here. Many of the families would say they’re seeing a profit. It’s a two-sided profit. One is their child’s health. There is also a financial component to this that I can’t quantify. One of the long-term goals is to quantify it.
A child with autism has difficulty sleeping. They wake in the night with pain. They have headaches. This child needs a special classroom and one-on-one aid, occupational therapy and speech therapy in school paid for by the school.
In the high school and college years, will this child be a functioning member of society? There is a high cost associated with illness.
If the child gets the tests and the doctor sees the data, he sees there are a lot of things going on within the bodily systems. Now we can treat that. That child might sleep through the night and attend therapy better. They start to get better. There are children recovering from autism with these treatments. They can go on to college and become entrepreneurs. We can see there is a financial profit to this in the long term.
We are helping kids and getting loans funded. I think we’re also helping the family unit as well. I think we might be able to point to some cases in 15 or 20 years and see it had a powerful impact.22:25
When was the first sign that you were moving down the right path and how soon after you launched the site did you get this first indicator?
It happened almost immediately. After a loan is funded, the family gets the loan and has the test or sees the doctor. Because their loans are interest free, I tell them there is an interest they are paying. There is an interest the lenders are receiving but it’s not financial. The families are encouraged to send updates to me. I send them onto their lenders. When we had enough loans out there and were receiving the updates, it’s very clear that these loans are having an impact.
How do families with needs find you? Is it word of mouth?
It’s mostly word of mouth. I don’t have a huge marketing budget. We’re getting a lot of things through Facebook now. Generation Rescue is a large autism organization founded by Jenny McCarthy and Jim Carrey. They have tons of members. They sent out information for Lend4Health in their newsletter. It’s also people searching on Google.
Describe, if you can, the standard profile of those who come to you for assistance.
Most of our families are from the US so far. We’ve had a couple who were in the UK. We have two from Canada seeking loans. We seem to have a lot from CA and FL.
Eighty-five percent of the loans are for boys. That’s not surprising since autism is more prevalent in boys.
The incidence of autism in the US is 1 in 91 children. That’s new. The old statistics were 1 in 150. For boys, it’s 1 in 53 or 58. We have 15 kids on there now. Only one is a girl.
Most of the kids are 5 to 7 years old.
The typical loan amount is around $500.
In the beginning, they’d say they need a test for $250. Now, they’re using Lend4Health for different things to try this year. They want a loan for all of it. The loan amounts are getting larger. They’re $1,000 to $1,500 now.
Any time you go over $500, the loans take longer to get funded. So far I haven’t put a restriction on loan amounts. As long as they’re micro, I’ll go with it.
Many of these families are single-mother families. The divorce rate within the autism community is around 80%.
Question for caller Kitty. What was your experience with using Lend4Health.Kitty: I was pretty shocked. My son was diagnosed about 1 ½ years ago. My first past was asking how to pay for it. When I got Tori’s response, I was so shocked that people were willing to give it a shot, lending money to a complete stranger. I think it’s a great idea and a wonderful way to help people in the community help themselves. Everybody talks about grants. In these economic times, it’s hard to get a decent grant that will really help.
Tori: Kitty actually received two loans from us. Once you pay back one in good standing, you can get a second loan.
Kitty: Our first loan was for an IgG test. The second loan was for traveling to Miami to have our yearly consult with the DAN doctor. At that one we found out he had lead poisoning.
What is a DAN! Doctor?
Kitty: A DAN! Doctor is one who specializes in biomedical treatments for autism. The acronym is Defeat Autism Now.
Tori: There are DAN doctors all over the country and internationally. Most people try to see a DAN doctor in their area, but there are people who have DAN doctors in different states. They do consults by phone and then visit once a year.
Kitty, do you want to share your success story?
Our first test was the IgG test which tells what food sensitivities your child has. Jonathon always had GI issues. This test said he’s allergic to rice and corn. It helped us to figure out his diet.
With the second loan we saw the DAN! doctor. We learned he had lead poisoning.
Then we did a Challenge Test and found out he had major lead poisoning. We started chelation. Now we’re hearing words, sentences and phrases. We tried everything. Those two things really made the difference.
People are researching their own solutions, is that correct?Yes. We have the ability to research on Google. The doctors will say the symptoms are a part of autism and there’s nothing you can do.
After a while, the parents think that can’t be true. They go online and find out there are things that can be done. There are doctors who will look at it differently and work on it. When you deal with those biomedical issues, the autistic symptoms lessen or often go away. That’s why this is considered the biomedical approach.
There are things happening within the community to get people to know more about this. Jenny McCarthy played a large role in this with her son. He had autism, went through biomedical treatment and recovered. She’s out there with her organization, Generation Rescue, getting work out to parents. Information is out there. As time goes on, it’s getting more and more out there.
How do people get profiled on your site and what’s the process for receiving funds?
On one hand, I’m trying to make the process as easy as possible. They’re going through enough stress. On the other side, because these are strangers, I do also have to play bad cop.
I check references and try to make sure people aren’t scamming the system.
On the site there’s a link for new loan requests. You go to an online Google form and fill it out.
I look through it and try to respond quickly. In the first conversation with the family, a lot gets accomplished. Everything is explained to them. During that conversation, we’ll often tweak the loan request. They clarify the details for the lenders who want to know what their money is going for.
If they’re still interested, they can send a picture of their child.
Once I get all the information I need to build the profile, I begin the reference check. I do due diligence in making sure these people are real.
Once I get that done, I put them on the website. I use a Chip-in widget that’s free. It connects to PayPal. Then it’s a matter of letting the world know they’re there, and it’s time to chip in.
Once a family is fully funded, I talk to them. They decide when they want to make their payments. We decide together when the first payment is do.
I do a promissory note to make it official. They sign it and send it back to me. When I get that, they get the loan. I send a check from the Lend4Health checking account now.
What is an HBOT?HBOT stands for hyperbaric oxygen therapy. It’s being used and paid for by insurance for other things that people need. They’re starting to use it with autistic children very successfully. Kids who never spoke go into the HBOT chamber and speak after. It’s not recognized as a treatment for autism. Insurance doesn’t cover it for that. It’s expensive. We are getting a lot of people requesting loans for HBOT.
Is the progress sustained or is it for a short window of time after the treatment?
I asked a DAN doctor about that. Progress made on HBOT is sustained. They’re called HBOT dives. The recommended number of dives at one time is 40. The gains from those dives stay with you. There are even vacation spots now for doing HBOT dives.
50:30 (dead spot 15 seconds)
What’s been the biggest surprise in this journey?
There’s been a lot. The biggest surprise might be that Lend4Health is not just about me. When you think of entrepreneurs, you picture people working in their basement late at night. It’s not just me. I didn’t create Lend4Health and have to push it out there and pitch it. People are taking ownership of it. There’s a woman in TN who is an avid lender but also received two loans. She created Cinco de Linco. The fifth day of every month, we try to get everyone to make a $5 loan. She made a logo for it and gets the word out there through Facebook and her log. I didn’t come up with that or ask her to do it. She didn’t come to me, pitch it, and ask for approval. That’s been surprising.
What’s been the biggest learning experience for you so far?
I feel like every step in this journey has been important even if it wasn’t fruitful or took longer. The website is my own personal failure. I don’t have a snazzy, cool website. The blog is working. We get done what we need to get done. I feel we are letting the community down by not having an awesome user experience website. That will happen.
You're an entrepreneur. So, what are your three keys for success?
I don’t know if people need to be so focused on the speed of success. Success happens at the rate it needs to happen. I don’t know that I want it to happen faster. They might spiral out of control. I don’t have the infrastructure for that yet.
Keys for success in a startup are remembering who you’re doing this for. I’m doing this for the families in their children. I need to listen to them. I also need listen to those lenders who come back and continue to make loans. That is the Lend4Health community.
I need to be very attuned to what they’re doing and thinking and what their needs are. I need to grow Lend4Health along with them at their pace in the direction they need it to go.
That’s really key. It would be different if I went away and created this Lend4Health website and determine how it’s going to work and force it upon these people.
How has social media helped you reach your reasonable aspiration with Lend4Health?When I started Lend4Health, I had never heard of social media. I knew about Facebook. I was on it but didn’t use it. I didn’t know what Twitter was. I have learned all of these things through Lend4Health. I’ve gone through different stages in social media. I started with Twitter and learned a ton of stuff. Twitter became a tool to get Lend4Health out there and to get loans funded. It’s very fickle. You have to treat them like your lover or they turn on you. I had that in the beginning. Once I didn’t have the time to the relationship with Twitter, it dropped off. You have to establish a relationship with the Twitterverse. You can’t just treat them like an ATM. I have experienced that.
I’ve realized that the core community of people is not on Twitter. They’re on Facebook. I have a fanpage. I would post something on Twitter and get one retweet but I’d get five likes and 10 comments on Facebook. For now, Twitter is a fast-moving river of future lenders. Facebook is the community, the people who are supporting and using Lend4Health. You need to play both, but I need to focus on Facebook. I do have plans to get back on Twitter and get people over to Facebook.
Where can parents with children showing symptoms of Autism Spectrum Disorder find content to educate them about the possible treatments?
There a few really good ones. One is the Autism Research Institute. They are the purveyors of DAN. They have the list of certified DAN doctors. Their site is www.autism.com. Another good one is TACA which is Talk About Curing Autism. Their site is www.tacanow.org. They have tons of great resources including how to do this on a budget and how to get insurance to pay for things using different codes. Another good website is Generation Rescue. That’s www.generationrescue.org. That’s Jenny McCarthy’s organization. Another one is Age of Autism. That’s www.ageofautism.com. It’s an online newspaper for the biomedical community. It’s where people get a lot of their information.
What are some projects coming up on your timeline?
This Thursday I’ll be in New York City. I’ve been invited as one of 40 non-profits to a seminar for good causes that Seth Godin is doing. I hope that’s a kick in the pants to get moving.
One thing I need to get done is our 501c3 certification. I need to get that application going to open ourselves up to large donations.
Right now, we have no profit. The site is run on a shoestring. Our major costs are the PayPal fees. If we can open ourselves to larger donations to cover some of those things, that would be a huge relief.
I need to get a better platform going for the site. I have a lot of ideas on how to have that snazzy website. I know what features I want. Once we can get that done, then I would look to get the word out more with strategic marketing. I’d have the infrastructure to handle a larger influx.
How can we help? Do you need an attorney for the 501c3 application or just the time to process it?I’d love to talk to an attorney. I definitely have some questions for an attorney. Because we’re using PayPal, I got under the eye of someone at PayPal. They asked questions about their anti-money laundering policies. We’ve gotten through that, but I would love to talk to a lawyer. We’re dealing with money and online transactions. I’d love to know that what I’m doing is fair and square. I’m also concerned about the SEC because we’re doing interest-free loans. I don’t think we fall under SEC, but I’d like to know for sure.
If came across a designer, would you be ready to talk to them now?
Yes!
Could you talk about this Ruby on Rails site one more time?
1:05:34 (dead spot until 1:05:45)It’s a website called: Spot.us. They’re in San Francisco doing community-funded journalism. They have a website that is open source. I talked to them about building off of their platform. It’s very much the same thing. That would be cool to use their open source platform and go from there. I’m not sure what they’re using. From everything I’m following on Twitter, there’s this large discussion of non-profit organizations coordinating and collaborating instead of everyone spending thousands of dollars to build their website. Maybe I can use this open source website and save a lot of money. There would be collaboration.
It would be interesting to build a Lend4Health platform off of the open source SpotUs platform.Why that as opposed to just going with a Boilerplate Ning site?
Because Lend4Health was born in this era and I don’t have ideas on how it should work, I think we can take some risks and do interesting things other organizations might not be open to. I’m interested in this open-source platform for a few reasons. It would be more efficient. Why reinvent the wheel when they already have a platform we could tweak. There’s a lot of talk in the non-profit world about collaborating. How can one non-profit’s infrastructure help another one? That would be neat if SpotUS and Lend4Health could share a platform. Instead of making Lend4Health a destination website, I would be interested in having Lend4Health be more like a platform that’s accessible all over the web. I’m on one of the social action platforms. Peter Dietz and Christine Egger are at Social Actions.
Because Lend4Health is a social platform, Lend4Health micro loan lend for Lila could show up completely different on the web right now through the SocialActions API. All of our things go through the SocialActions API and are dispersed across the web in different ways. It would be great if people could make a loan directly from the Facebook fanpage. I want to work on that. I’ve been talking to the people at TwitPay to make loans over Twitter. I don’t want people to have to go to the Lend4Health website to make this work.
Where can people find and follow you?- FaceBook Fan Page
- Email: Lend4health at gmail.com
- Website: Lend4Health.
When are you going to write a book?
I do like to write but I’ve never thought of writing a book. When I first started this, I talked to Kiva. I asked if it was alright to say Kiva was my inspiration. They said, “This is amazing. It will be huge. Be sure to write down everything you’re doing. You’ll have to tell your story some day.” Maybe I should be documenting a little better.
You should. It is a great story that's only beginning to develop now. Thank you.
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