Stefan Swanepoel joined the show recently. Stefan is the author of Surviving Your Serengeti: 7 Skills to Master Business & Life.
For 2 million wildebeest of Africa, their Serengeti is a 1,000 mile-long migration filled with hunger, thirst, predators and exhaustion. The journey is so impressive, so dangerous and incomparably massive that is rated the #1 Natural Wonder of the World.
Stefan Swanepoel’s life has been a “Serengeti journey”—from his birth in Kenya to schooling in Hong Kong and South Africa eventually, running a New York-based global franchise network with 25,000 sales associates in 30 countries. In all he has served as president of seven companies and two non-profit organizations.
You can listen to our conversation here.
Thank you, Stefan, for joining the show. I loved your book!
Zane, good morning. It’s so wonderful to be on your show with all of your listeners today. Thank you very much for the chance to talk with your listeners.
You’re currently running a global enterprise now, right?
Well, we’re not quite global. We do a bunch of international consulting. I do have clients on a number of continents in addition to the US.
But, we are a company that does produce a very comprehensive annual analysis of the real estate industry, particularly the residential real estate where we have big companies that provide home-selling services to the buyers. These are companies that people would recognize their names if we were to mention them. But we do research for them and consult with them. We help them with their international expansion.
Why did you think that metaphor of the Serengeti would resonate with an urban, all-digital, all-the-time reader?
Wow. An urban, digital, reader.
We’re all on a journey every day in our lives whether we have adversities of challenges or burdens to overcome. We have our own struggles today.
When I was trying to write this fable, this metaphor, I was looking for something taht was going to big. I thought “Wow, we might not be a jungle animal. Maybe we are what you just described...this urban, digital, concrete jungle.” And we participate in our world. We carry with ourselves a mask; we hide our feelings.
Because we are so politically correct which is a part of being graceful and respectful of other people, we often do not say what we mean nor mean what we say.
If you look at the animals in the serengeti, they are who they are. They don’t have this mask or this different persona. And you can see more clearly their unique skills and talents.
I thought “Wow, isn’t it a good idea if we as the reader cut through the rubbish and focus on what are our strengths? What our weaknesses and who are are instinctively?” And the animal paradigm, the animal metaphor, showed it so clearly.
We’re not animals and I’m not saying we are animals.
But it highlights it so easily. And I could holler out to you “Hey, Zane are you crocodile or a giraffe?” And we could get into a meaningful business or life dicsussion without stepping on anybody’s toes.
Turns out I’m a mongoose.
We launched this quiz in early - December. We’ve had over 4000 take the quiz (5000 as of February 4.) The results are very balanced. Of course there are 7 skills. There is the:
- Enduring Wildebeest
- Strategic Lion
- Enterprising Crocodile
- Efficient Cheetah
- Gracious Giraffe
- Communicating Elephant
- Risk-Taking Mongoose
The three that are most widely at this time, and we have a 3rd party monitoring this test so its results are meaningful but by no means an in-depth analysis. But it seems the Enterprising Crocodile, the Gracious Giraffe and the communicating Elephant seem to be the three that more people tend to follow into.
You’re in a really unique category. Not many people are willing to take risks.
What inspired you to write Surviving Your Serengeti? What was the driving force behind this 5 year labor?
I’ve written 18 - 19 books. Writing a book for me is not the hard part. But all those books are technical in nature. My most recent book came out as recent as 2 weeks ago. So, this is an ongoing process.
I was looking for something I could say where could I put my absolute passion, a a parable. I don’t want to compare, but if you think of Andy Andrews or Bob Burg I was looking for a business parable that was bigger, something that was epic, something that was awe-inspiring, something that was large. And I thought, “wow the largest mammals is the elephant, the fastest animal is the cheetah, one of the oldest is the crocodile.
I looked at all of this and thought “Wow, you find them all in one place.” And then at the same you have the wildebeest which is one of the largest mammals and one of the largest migrations of mammals on the planet.
When I saw all of that together I thought “Wow. Here, I found a place on this planet where the story of Life is bigger than Life itself. It’s this big canvas that God created. It’s a really impressive landscape. Can I find in there a hidden message? ”
I went to the serengeti. I’ve been before. I’ve been on 20 safaris in my life. I got on a plane and went back to the serengeti with a new pair of eyes just to look at the serengeti with its wonderful awe-inspiring message of Nature.
When I went back, I found it. I spent two weeks on my own, with one ranger dedicated and I saw it.
I loved that you chose a business fable as your format. Why? Was that our original intention?
I think that technical books, which I’ve written so much, and academic books, which if you’re not in that space, are a tough reads; you have very little inclination to read a technical or academic book.
Yet, people tend to be fascinated by stories whether it’s Harry Potter stories or other stories. People love to read and be transported to somewhere else.
And looking at all the books and I’m a very avid reader, I was saying to myself “Which genre of books do I think will tell me that story, that message, and yet I can put purpose behind it?”
And I feel that if I can tell a good story, that if I can transfer you here in the US to Africa...if I can sketch for you a safari, I can really carry you out of your chair in the office environment and take you to this awesome awesome place then I can live out my dream and be a story - teller at heart.
I can tell you a story and take you on this journey with me in a pleasant, unthreatening way, whether you’re running a company or raising kids or you have aspirations to something else. I hope that I can communicate a message through my fable.
My friend Erika Andersen coined a great phrase in her book Being Strategic. It's reasonable aspiration or hoped-for future. What is your reasonable aspiration or hoped-for future with writing this book?
Two or three things pop to mind.
Tenacious persistency. People should be willing to continue on this journey of life. When we break our journey we sometimes give up so easily. We like to blame others: people or institutions or the government.
I’m not saying it can’t be sometimes involved in the problem. I’m saying we need to be tenacious in our desire to be successful.
And then if I could sneak in another one, but strategic efficiency. You have to be efficient in anything you do. Even in running this program, people may think you just talk, but I’m sure you spend hours preparing for this show. You have a plan. And once you have that plan you have to execute it efficiently. You have a timeline and you try to make your readers and listeners as satisfied as possible.
Tenacity, persistency, strategy, efficiency. And of course those are words in my book.
How will you know you're making progress? What metrics will you use?
Mine or your listeners? Again, a tough question. When one writes a book and it’s a parable for how one deal’s with life or challenges, I think when you see people write about it, blog about it, Facebook about it and they come back to you and they say that this book has had an impact on their lives, an imprint on their companies.
Maybe, I can give you a few examples. the book isn’t out yet, It’s available in March, 2011.
We had a few hundred galley copies made, set up by my publisher. I had a few made up to share just within my circle of influence. I picked 50 or so of my clients and I showed them a draft copy, which was an unfinished product, it has some typos. I said ‘Just read through it. Give me your take. Let me know what it is” But there are 3 or 4 stories shared and they’re on the Serengeti book website.
I can think of Sara Weise, a real-estate broker agent in the Austin, Texas area. She was so fascinated by the what animal am I quiz that she had her whole company take the quiz. And they all came up with different answers and they all took an afternoon off and sat down and chatted about it. What are the characteristics of your animal? How do you deal with challenges. They had this whole team building exercise and she posted it on the web. [Note: I can't find the link.]
I shared an advance copy with one person and it got shared with an entire company and they’re talking about it, how they could better understand themselves.
Another example which brought tears almost to my eyes is Tracey Reeves. She read the book, took the test, posted it on the web. She had a son, about 18 years old and apparently he does not read a lot of books. And I have kids in that age and they generally don’t read a lot of books. He picked up the book, took the test and found out he was a wildebeast. And she blogged on her website that that gave him more confidence and gave him a sense of encouragement and a sense of belonging. He now feels that the wildebeast is an animal that is very enduring and tenacious, will never give up, and even against all odds of hunger and predators, still goes through that journey. And her son is wlaking around with a new level of confidence. He still doesn’t know what he’s going to do with his life yet. But the book has made a huge impression on him to such an extent that he took our quiz, posted it on his Facebook page and had all the kids in his neighborhood take the quiz.
It’s those kinds of messages you get back that make you say “Wow! I’m really helping people change their lives.”
Who were you writing for? Describe the reader you had in mind while you wrote late at night over those 5 years.
The reader I had in mind. Probably those same persons that I believe the sage in the book, Zaccariah, is speaking to. I included in the book many subtle and hidden messages that if you don’t get it will be ok, but if you do it will give you added depth and meaning.
I have 4 different generations in the book. I have the senior generation, the baby boomer generation, of which I am one. I have Gen-x and Gen-y. So, whether you are a 50 or 60-year old. I have gentleman that’s retired, a gentleman who lost his job on Wall Street, a kid who works on a farm, a former Navy Retiree. A lot of time was spent to collect an eclectic group so that when Zacchariah tells them the meaning of life, the messages of the animals, the skills each animal has to survive and thrive, they each accept that story in a different way.
Who was I trying to reach? I’d say it’s all of those people. So, if you say “Stefan, you’re not focused.” So, probably more so the employee that is working for business today or the entrepreneur and is having a tough time with his job or his cash-flow which I know very well, too.
The struggles of corporate America, of the entrepreneur, who I have worked with every day. I’ve had my own company, 6 times I’ve owned as the major stockholder. Then I’ve also been the President of a publicly listed company. So, both sides.
That probably is the closest I was writing to. But, I’d love to believe that any person working or not, studying to become something or does not yet know who they would like to become.
You list seven skills ....to survive our serengeti. What are they? What's the most important one?
I’ll give them to not in importance, but in percentages. So far, of the 4000 people who have taken the test the most popular is the Enterprising Crocodile. That shows you how many entrepreneurs we have in this company, who work for themselves and have that desire and passion to be their own boss. That’s about 28% of the quiz-takers, so far.
At the same percentage is the Gracious Giraffe. That’s impressive. I didn’t think it was going to be that high for that animal. These are people who just have what it takes. Their word is their bond. They say what they mean. They really care about people around them. They care about society and are professional about how they interact with everyone.
The 3rd category is the Communicating Elephant. That might be effected by I have had a lot of real estate professionals take the test. And many are the Enterprising Crocodile, but also they are the Communicating Elephant. They have to be comfortable speaking with both in front of people, around people and get their message across as they are sales people.
The next 4 animals are very close. One is 9%. The other two are 8% and 7%.
The Strategic Lion, the person that is very focused in life. They have a plan or they create a to-do list or an action plan for his day or life. He knows what he wants to do.
The other one is probably the Efficient Cheetah. Very similar to the Strategic Lion. Here it’s not the long-term plan or I am mapping out my actions, but it’s everything I do I want to do in the quickest time possible. Don’t waste my time. I need to get through things. That’s the person you give the work to because the busiest person is the one who gets the work done, juggling many balls in the air. Then the one you refer to which is I think is a very special one. I deliberately put that one in.
The Risk-Taking Mongoose is an incredible animal. Yes, it might be small in size. But that’s why I put it in because of it’s size it is not scared to go against the King Cobra snake. It’s a great team player. It understand risks. It’s not risk averse. It doesn’t mean it will do anything. It means that it is calculating when it does something and is very efficient.
The last one, the main character in the story, the Enduring Wildebeast. It is not as big as the American bison, not as pretty. But it is tenacious. That animal has incredible endurance. Each year it crosses 1000 miles. It has cheetahs running and pullbing it down. It has lions stalking it. It has crocodiles eating it. Yet it has become the dominant species in the serengeti. It completely dominates to such an extent that there are 1.5 million animals and when they move each year it completel changes the landscape. All the other species depend on where the wildebeast is at any time.
Although many of them die during this journey, as we do in ours. We may not die but we have challenges and setbacks and we have to overcome them. And that’s what the wildebeast does.
This is a circle of life they run every year.
We need all 7 skills to be successful. Which one do you see people having mastered the least? How does that raise the risk for not surviving our serengeti?
As a population, and remember I have my citizenship, my family accepted our citizenship from a decade ago and I am truly proud to be a U.S. citizen...If I had to pick one, and think about the people I have worked with in the past and look at the results of the quiz, I would probably say the enduring wildebeast is the one we tend to not have. We tend to be self-centered sometimes. We tend to blame other people and give up and not pursue what our beliefs are, what our commitments are.
Now, of course there are many examples which I could cite where we have done the opposite. Nothing is mutually exclusive, black and white.
But if I could share with the listeners it’s don’t give up. I’m not saying be stubborn or arrogant and think you can do anything. But at the same time if you set your heart on something and you have a roadmap, don’t use any and every excuse to find a way from something. If you put your head down like a wildebeast and keep focused then you can in most cases be way more successful if you’re willing to endure.
We all have multiple skills. And a well-balanced person would have multiple skills or you would try and strive to have them.
But, of course, not every skill we have is not equally prominent. The book tries to illustrate which of these instinctive skills which would mean the most to everyone I think that we should say how do we work together as a team, if you have this one skill and I have this one, how do I understand and communicate with you because instinctively, if we were thrown into a new environment which one would we be? Because you can’t be all of them.
If you had to depend on one skill to survive and thrive in the serengeti... would you be the one running fast or the one with plan to have breakfast?
What is the one that if I had to depend on you, which one are you going to be so good and we would know that, so that I can depend on you and we can compliment the rest of a team with complimentary skills so we can have a better team, a better company or even a better country.
What are three things we can do to better master that wildebeast, bring out the endurance?
We have to instinctively know who we are. If we know who we are out of the 7, then by default we can determine what we are weakest at. If we are weakest at endurance then accept it. Don’t fight it. We aren’t all superman; we aren’t all perfect. Identify the skills you are not strong at. Accept that and see how you can improve on that with the skills of the others in your company.
If you want to say that is your weakest skill or your least strongest skill, I don’t care. But then try and see if you can improve on that. Find someone who is good on that skill. If I’m not a risk-taker, but you are then maybe if I befriend you and we work together then maybe we can learn from each other. If I’m averse to risk-taking then I might say no to something before I give it a second thought. But you might look at the same problem, then you’re already looking at how you’re going to solve the problem.
Ad by know that that’s how you think then I can learn from you. By learning which animal we are with the What Animal Am I quiz, a 3-4 minute quiz and as I said before I’m not trying to create a new strengths0finder or a meyers-brigg. This is a casual, informal, way for you to have fun and learn what skills instinctively drive us.
I recommend everyone go to the site. The survey was fun and quite useful and your description was quite accurate.
You've survived and thrived in multiple Serengetis. You've lived around the world. You’ve led 7 companies. Which of these 7 skills played the greatest role in your success?
I would say probably two. Probably number one would be Strategic Lion. You’ve gotta know where you want to go to. If you don’t know you won’t know if you get there. We’ve heard that said so many times by so many times.
Strategy. Have a plan not only for your life but break it into pieces for the rest of your life: your religion, your kids,. If you don’t have a roadmap then it is likely you will not get to where you want to.
I had a very specific plan. I was very fortunate to grow up in this diplomatic household. I learned 3-4 languages by the time I was 5. My father took me to 3-4 continents. I’ve been to 40 countries around the world. It gives you a broad-based understanding and respect for the different cultures and societies and languages around the world.
I think that balances me.
But at the same time, it confuses you as a young child. You’re not sure where home is. In one year I was speaking one language and one year later I was speaking Swahili at the age of 3 or 4. I don’t remember because at the age of 6 I was put in a school in Hong Kong and learning Chinese. What a jump is that?
And then by the age of 12 the put me in a Dutch/Afrikaaner school in South Africa and wanted me to learn to speak Afrikaan and Dutch.
The only way I could do this was to have plan. Where do I want to end up not just geographically? Where would you like to end up in life? What is it you want to do? And what are the steps you want to do to get there?
And then if I can I’ll sneak in the last one: Endurance. Once you have your map, don’t give up on it.
Which of the 7 offered the greatest challenge? What did you learn from solving that challenge?
Whew. Maybe efficiency. I think it’s one of the hardest skills. We think we are efficient.
But, I recognized it as a weakness two decades ago and I have taken a concerted effort to be more efficient. It’s trying to learn every day what am I going to do today and tomorrow and create a priority list of items, to try and rank them in importance.
I don’t really allow anyone to call me on my mobile phone. I think only 4-5 people have my mobile phone number. It’s not that I don’t want calls from people, or I’m important. It’s just that I’ve tried to training people that if you want to deal with me then you can leave a voicemail and I’ll respond in 24 - 48 hours. If you send me an email, a text, I’ll respond to you in a few minutes.
I found I can deal with people better, deal with more people, at my time and leisure with the time blocked and set aside. I can be more efficient. I like being able to focus on that task that will help me be more successful at that time.
Perfect! That segues nicely into our next question. Skill number 4 is Efficiency. And you write:
To accomplish this you must be constantly on the lookout for 'inefficiency' in the project, or process, or yourself by controlling sources of friction and distractions (email, phone calls, texts, web surfing, etc)
You touched on a couple of things you do now. What other steps do you take now with all your responsibilities?
How do you accomplish this in your life today?
I think we all have distractions in our lives. Some situations are more unique and special than anybody else’s. If you get a chance to speak with someone else you find that everybody carries with them their own struggles and burdens and ordeals. And yes, inefficiencies.
I would say it is trying to roadmap it out and prioritize it. Whether it’s a diary or an electronic list but having a very clear idea of a task list with a responsibility whether it’s you or a team member for when that project is completed.
We all know that saying:
“How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.”
It’s that same principle. If you have a huge task that takes days or weeks or months, how do you prioritize that into small chunks and steps. And how do you deliberately set aside time each day. And, don’t allow the flickering Tweet or Facebook to interrupt. I tweet 50 times a day but not at the same time every day but I have a specific time slot every day.
There are times you should put those things down and concentrate on doing what needs to be done. If you’re on a conference call you can’t be tweeting and efficient. And the same with your family. There are times you need to put those things down and concentrate on the task at hand.
Skill number 5 is Grace. I imagine that in your journeys around the world you have captured some opportunities to both show and learn this skill. Do you have an experience that either taught you that skill or taught you it's importance?
You’ve probably picked the hardest one among all of them. There are few people who have read the book and see how do you be the Gracious Giraffe.
That is one thing very very often missing from society. Be it that we should be grateful for everything we have received, be it that we should act gracious with other people, be it that we should transpose that word in the business world to the word professional and say we should be professional and ethical in our dealings.
I’m not sure how you should imply that word. You can take the religious connotation, you can take the grateful connotation, the professional connotation. In my opinion they are all acceptable connotations.
How did I learn that skill? I would probably give credit to my father. He was a diplomat and I grew up in a diplomat household. He was always representing another entity whether it was a company or our family or in our case a country.
But, because you’re representing a country in a foreign place, he was always mingling with very important, influential people, and he was the window for the people he was meeting to the universe of the country he was representing.
He could never let his guard down. He could never not be gracious. Whether it was pride and joy or complexity and sorrow, he had to handle those opportunities with the utmost in grace.
That’s the environment I grew up with and it has stayed with me.
I think it is key.
How do you teach graciousness in your company?
Yeah, it’s tough to teach it in a company. I think it can be taught. I’ve seen it taught within companies. It takes time. It becomes a culture. It takes a mindset.
You don’t walk into a company and say “Guys, let’s be graceful.” It’s a philosophy. It become the very fiber of who you are. It’s not something you can learn in a book. You might pick one up and say “Oh I should be more graceful and then you are for a few minutes and then you forget about it.”
But, if you want to be as graceful as the giraffe in the way you treat people, respond to people, respect people...it’s got to go all the way through the company. It’s got to probably start at the top of the company. The company’s got to have heart. The founder has to have heart, has to have purpose and meaning. He has to understand he is not just chasing the dollar. Clearly the company has to always be making money, be successful.
By no means am I saying the one skillset replaces the other. They are complimentary in nature. If you want to a culture of grace it’s got to come from the top and it takes time.
One of the results we've seen in this recent economy is the result of companies failing to invest in upgrading the skills of their key stakeholder: employees.
You've been a very successful business leader. How did you bring these 7 skills to your employees and associates? Which one proved to be the most challenging to master by those in our organization? How did you address that?
We’re really getting to the heart of the matter. How can we be better humans and contribute better to our organizations? If you want to be an executive that I aspire to and yes I try to be these things but I also fail. If we aspire to be better, you’ve got to say that you care and then you’ve got to show it.
You’ve got to show it in your fiber.
You’ve got to say what you mean and then you’ve got to mean it.
You’ve got to show where we’re going and then you’ve got to get us there.
You’ve got to say what you’re going to be doing and then you’ve got to do it.
It’s again that seeing something through to fruition. Stephen Covey said:
“Walk your talk”.
Talk is easy; it’s cheap. We know so many around us and our leaders who will give us lip service and never make good on their promises. The leaders we remember, that we look back on as an icon, are leaders who do exactly what they say they are going to do.
Those are skills that will change an executive from a shallow, empty, person with rhetoric to an impressive leader who we’ll say “I will follow you through anywhere. Even if I have to cross the savannah where there are crocodiles, I’m going to follow you because I know that you mean what you say. And we’re going to run together as a team.”
That’s the definition of a successful business leader.
You list Communication as skill number 7. And I'm reading where communication and collaboration and creativity are skills in great demand in the future.
Will communication skills take a more pre-eminent role in the future? Or will endurance or risk-taking?
I’m not sure which one will become dominant. The elephant’s skills, I think so, will become critical.
There is so much media and white noise out there that communication is critical. It’s critical that the person who is sharing the message or parting the wisdom or giving the tasks or duties, make sure the people they are speaking to have complete clarity about your message. You message needs to triumph over any potential confusion and we’re shouting over this white noise and we think, I think, that you said, but I don’t know, I’m confused, I’m going on my own.
The person who needs to get the right message is not the person hearing the message, it’s the person giving the message. If I’m giving a message today then I need to organize my sentences and words that I have the highest probability that the person listening to it will get a good sense and balance of what I’m trying to get across. I agree with you that communication is absolutely key.
Let's talk about social media. Big, buzzy topic. One of its appeals is its ability to share knowledge. Well, share information. What role if any could social media play in developing these 7 skills?
I absolutely adore social media. As humans we’ve always been good at communication. We’ve done it in a different way, at a bar or sports game or a drive through or we’ve done it in a barbecue in the backyard. Social media is just a different place for us to get together. It’s a new vehicle. But it is still at the heart for those of us who like to talk to people and want to share.
And yes, I know social media started as "someone had breakfast this morning..." But you get to the stage where it’s very tiring and I don’t have the time to filter through all the thousands of people having coffee today.
But it is an opportunity to bond with my followers. I tweet all my own tweets. I have 3 accounts. Between the three of them I have 41,000 followers. My personal one I have 20,000 and this book has 10 or 11,000 followers. We try to talk about our focus every single day.
I try to respond to every single tweet or retweet about me or my book. So it’s not just a touchy-feely. It’s about connecting with these people, most of whom live in a city and town far away from where I am. This is a convenient and easy way to share with them.
I think that the platforms be that Facebook or Twitter of LinkedIn are going to grow and adapt to become a very very commonplace thing in the not too-distant future if they are not already there.
Which character are you in your book? Any other characters in the book that you encountered in your personal serengeti?
I’m not going to tell you! That’s a secret.
There are a few characters that I would like to be. I’ll share with you the three characters, but my publisher asked that I keep it a secret until the book is published. These are the three characters I would love to be.
I would love to be the enduring wildebeast.
I have a lot of respect for the Strategic Lion, not because it’s the king of jungle. But the roadmap idea we talked about has been key for me in my life.
You asked me what I think a lot of people don’t have a lot of and that would be the Efficient Cheetah. That’s a skill I would try to have more of.
I’m probably one of those three.
You're a leader. Leaders are readers, says Jim Rohn; I just quote him. What books are you reading?
It’s wonderful to get on a plane and go somewhere. Books are good for planes.
I would say that the book I just finished was Delivering Happiness: A Path to Profits, Passion and Purpose from Tony Hsieh, CEO of Zappos. I’ll most likely be seeing him in March.
A book I have on my table is Getting Naked by Pat Lencioni. there’s a whole bunch of books by Lencioni. Getting Naked is the best business book on my table from him.
You posted a list of your top business fables from the last 20-some years. Which one was yours?
If I had to pick one I’d say Who Moved My Cheese? by Dr. Spencer Johnson. He's written the most successful business fable of all time.
The author I look up to the most is probably Ken Blanchard. I remember him going back to almost my university years, the One-Minute Manager, 1983 if I remember correctly. I have a testimonial from him for my book. And it was so great to get that from someone I look up to so much.
I love The Monk Who Sold His Ferrari by Robin Sharma
I love Andy Andrews. His two most recent books are the Traveler’s Gift: 7 Decisions That Determine Personal Success and The Noticer.
Leave us with a quote to help just Keep. Moving. Forward through our serengeti.
I would say that, something we can remember the book by. Nature has a lot to share. There’s a big message in Nature. And if you’re willing to listen, then any ordeal you may encounter, any struggle you might have, you already have the skill and God will give you the opportunity to hone your skill and prove your skill on any journey you do.
I wish your listener’s all the best.
Where can our listeners find you on the web?
The best place to find me on the web is at Serengeti Book.
I'm on Twitter at
Serengeti, for the book.
Swanepoel, for my personal account.
I write a blog every single day. I post on YouTube once a week; we have 20 videos up there.
And you can take the test, What Animal Am I?, at the site.
Next guests: Elizabeth Doty.