Todd Sattersten joined the show last week. We wanted to talk about his new, and great book: Fixed to Flexible: Four Simple Lessons About Cost, Price, Margin and The OptionsAvailable to The 21st Century Business.
You can listen to our conversation here.
I’m a firm believer in that if you admire and respect folks, well, you should tell them. Right to their face or voice in this case. Todd’s one of those rare individuals who...packs a heart with smarts. Intellectually, Todd could hold his own with almost anybody. And those who may not, there may be a few...he’s smart enough to listen until he can.
And for those he clearly surpasses, he’s kind enough and articulate enough to make them feel they are his equal, sharing their unique solutions and views of the world. Those two, the big heart, the sharp mind, get applied creating friends and partners and fans wherever he goes because he helps them reach their goals. And quietly allows them all the rewards.
Any business, any size, can benefit from reading Todd's new book. And it’s free as a download.
Let’s talk about your new book. Fixed to Flexible: Four Simple Lessons About Cost, Price, Margin and The Options Available to The 21st Century Business.
Congrats. When did it go live?
It went up on Groundhog Day – my most favorite day of the year.
Our friend, Erika Andersen, has a phrase I love. The phrase is reasonable aspiration or hoped-for goal. What was your ‘reasonable aspiration’ or ‘hoped-for goal’ in writing this book?
There has been so much conversation around price in the last couple of years. I thought I could connect a different set of pieces together that people may have not thought of or seen before. I wanted people to think differently about what pricing means and what options people have available to them. Understanding that you have more options creates more power as you go to do things.
How will you know when you have reached it? What will change about your life?
I know I have reached it already because of the feedback. I have received more feedback on this project in just two weeks than all the feedback on the 100 Best Business Books of All Time.
Note: Todd co-wrote with Jack Covert of 800CEORead. Also, a great book.
There is clearly something that is ringing true with people regarding cost, margins, price and decisions.
How has it changed your life?
The way it has changed my life is that it make me realize that I need to do more projects. You compiled a lot of research and case studies for this book. Where were you most surprised? Was it some data or a case-study?
I think the thing I found most interesting was a case study on a company called EverNote. They are a web-based service: I like to call it digital memory. You can upload anything and store it. I think it pulls together a whole set of ideas of the next business models that will evolve. It is a free service – about 2.2 million people utilize it for FREE. It is fully supported by 40,000 that pay $5.00 a month for the premium service. His model actually works and I love seeing that.
Note: Todd's interview with EverNote's CEO
Note: I use Evernote. It’s surprisingly cool, simple and very useful. And I've just touched some of its uses.
Who is your audience? More specifically, describe thereader you had in your mind as you wrote this book.
I was speaking to the sort of person that is like you and I, Zane: independent- creatives that are doing a variety of projects for people, whether they are assisting with customer service or graphic designers, copy writers or people with project ideas they want to commercialize. Pricing is the single most important decision people have to make and I didn’t really see a good resource to help with this. People need to know how to charge, what their products are worth, and different options. I think it ended up appealing to a wider audience but it was focused towards people who are trying to launch a project and how they should go about doing that.
Why do they need this book? What pain of theirs are you solving?
1. The unique connection of stuff. It connects the dots. It pulls together material that probably is spread over ten books and 50 websites.
2. It solves the pain of what am I going to do? They are not sure of their options. I try to convince people that there is a wider array of options available to them in terms of how they are going to market. What are the 4 simple lessons about cost, price, margin and the options...?
If you are in business you concentrate on these things:
1. Costs - Costs are always going down. You have to manage with that. For the last 20 years the costs of hard drives have gone down 5% per quarter.
2. Price - Price is a signal. One concept I talk about is anchoring and you can sway someone’s perception about cost or product by anchoring them with a number beforehand. For example retail price tags: here is the old price- here is OUR new price.
3. Margins - Margin is when you connect price and cost together. It is the most important measure in business. It is like your weight. How many calories are you taking in versus how many you are burning tells you where your weight is at. You have control over price and costs. 4. Options - You Have Options. There are more ways than you realize how to go to market. Price discrimination is a way to create different price points for the consumer.
Time is another point. I am trying to connect all the commercial aspects of business together: sales, customer service, purchasing and pull these into one bundle and say you have many options and flexibility in terms of how you go to market.
28:57
Which lesson did we, collectively, fail as a country in the run up to this recession?
The one thing that strikes me is that money was cheap. When Greenspan set the discount rate to zero, it was here pricing got way out of whack by the fact that cheap money was available. As we are trying to get back to some semblance of order now, but I don’t think we will get past some of the problems we have been experiencing for the last 20 years. Does our economic recovery wait while we learn this lesson? Or does one of the other 4 lessons turn us around?
It is interesting watching the status quo and the players in creating the situation we have got ourselves into.
We have a ton more options available to us.
Let us believe that we are smarter than we were. We need to understand that emotion is a powerful driver in decision-making and we need to have some speed bumps – breaking mechanisms in our free market system and they need to be balanced to stop the things that have happened over the past couple of years.
Do the 4 lessons apply equally to small businesses and large?
Yes they do. The power of the e-book is that I believe small businesses have a greater ability to apply these lessons than big business. Big business runs a little differently and small businesses are more flexible and creative in going to market. In the digital realm you have even more options, especially in book publishing. You can choose your price. I think small business has the ability to be more creative, but you have to get over the fear of pricing and product offering. Let's say you're founder of a startup. Which lesson would keep you awake at night wondering if anybody gets it at your startup?
It continues to be price because there is no perfect answer to price. On the cost side, you can price shop the cost of the needed product. You can pay what you want to pay. When you get into the pricing aspect, there are many things that don’t have a set price – like a home or a car. There is plenty of leeway.
I am a big fan of cash-flow. That's the number I always talk about. Cash makes you king. Keep the cash flowing in and you are the king. And with banks no longer lending to small businesses, it's even more important. You reference a quote from Bo Burlingham of Inc magazine that says gross margin is the most important. Why is gross margin so important?
It tells you how hard you have to work. It tells you how many sales you need. As a business owner, at the end of the day you need to know that you make enough money to thrive. If you don’t understand the margin, you can very easily get yourself under water. Companies go out of business because they run out of money. The margin is what you get to take home at the end of the day. Margin tells you time. You need to be bringing in more money than you are spending. 44:47
In your book, great book again, you talk about an experiment by behavioral economist Dan Ariely usingWalt Whitman’s Leaves of Grass. What was that experiment?
Dan has done a lot of interesting experiments on how we perceive value. He wanted to see how his students would perceive value. He told them that he was going to have a poetry reading and it would cost $2.00 to attend. He sent out an email and only 3% would attend. This was not very promising. He made a second offer – which was free attendance. The percentage jumped to 35%.
He approached a second set of students and told them that he would pay them $2.00 to attend. 59% said they were interested. He then made a different offer, saying that the event would be free. The attendance rate dropped to 8%.
The response rates depended on the initial offer. The point is that you have a much more significant ability of how people value your product than you realize. You can construct value around what you do.
As I read it, I kept thinking about the efforts of the Big Three recently to offer more and more incentives to buy. Yes, they increased sales. But did they create repeat customers? Would making their products free have helped? What would have happened if they let the buyer determine the price of the car?
You have to understand that if it is a pay what you want, you may not recover your costs to provide the product or service. You might need a “lower limit.” I think it is tough for someone who offers a physical product to use this methodology. What books are you reading?
Most books that are coming out are around the idea of action and work. It started with Dan Pink’s Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us. It was a simplified model of how we should think about motivation.Seth Godin’s book: Linchpin: Are You Indispensable? One of the ideas is how when we used to go to work, someone always told us what to do. Now we have to create our own maps. Defeat the “lizard brain.”
2 days ago I talked with Chip Heath, co-author of “Switch: How to Change Things When Change is Really Hard” which is about change.
(Listen to Todd's interview with Chip Heath.)
Rework by the guys from 37 Signals. It is about work and how we do stuff.
Thanks, Todd.
My testimonial for Todd's book. This is a short book. But I found the content and ideas and yes formulas made it a powerful book. A book I wish I'd read...a few years ago. All of it was so good, compact, crisp, I first grumbled what a headache. Disclaimer: I'm an art major. But as I read it again and again I saw the beauty of it. It opens the door to seeing your business in a brand new light, a light that can allow you to create new products, new services, new markets, with compelling gross margins and cash-flows to make and keep you king.